Hey there,
I think it’s quite safe to say:
Therefore there’s the wide-spread recommendation to replace saturated fats with kinds of unsaturated fats wherever possible.
But oftentimes reality gets in the way and replacement is not not a simple option. How about addition tho?
TLDR: “To which extend can we compensate for undesired health effects of ‘bad fats’ by ADDITION of ‘good fats’?”
It’s really hard to find any satisfactory information on this issue and I think it’s a very interesting question to ask.
I mean. If you look into high quality nut / seed / mixes of oils, all of them at least contain small amounts of saturated fats. Theres a lot of mumbling about “the mixture / acid profile matters”. And there is even a lot of products marketed in a direction of “so many percent of 3 / 6 / 9 MCT etc”. I guess most of this is marketing bla. The apparent thing here is: These products all claim it actually is a good thing that they also include “lesser quality fats”. Is this caused by the fact that it’s hard to manufacture products that are free of “lesser quality fats” - so it’s actually white washing a production-necessity?
Let me also propose the following thought experiment: A bunch of healthy adults who work out several times a week are being fed on lasagna and salami pizza for lunch for several months. All nice and trashy. Half of them eat the meals as is. The other ones soak it in linen / walnut / whatever oil and supplement with Fish / Krill oil or oil; while still maintaining perfectly even energy balance, probably by saving on energy on other meals. In other words: Both groups keep their energy intake about even with their energy consumption; we don’t want to care about effects of weight change. Let’s also pretend this will not have terrible psychological effects, I’m still novice at designing human experiments.
How would these groups’ blood vessels, their coronary arteries, their cholestorol and triglyceride blood work look like? Since we got a shitton of hormones that are synthesized from fats - how about these levels as well?
Does anyone have a read up on this? While this is ofc a giant exaggeration, what would you conclude from the findings in terms of dietary advice?
I think it’s very clear that there is nothing like a “perfectly nutritional guilt free greek platter with creamy desserts”. However - if having it once in a while - will swallowing a few capsules or meanwhile sipping more nice fats clear your conscience? Or at least assist clearing your arteries?
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Very much looking forward for discussion and also some articles as reference!
You’re not compensating for “bad” fats. You’re just increasing the fat your body has access to. There are no magic wands (or pills) that erase your decisions.
Think of it like a car. How much high grade octane do you need to put in a high end car to compensate for putting in a gallon of the low grade stuff? The car will still try to combust the lower grade fuel, but will do better when given what it was designed for. I think you’re focused on the overall mpg rather than what’s happening to the engine. That kind of thinking will leave you stranded on the side of the road needing a tow.
It sounds like you’re just starting to learn about nutrition. There really are no “bad” and “good” nutrients. We have ratios. When one of our nutrients are out of balance, we try to correct. However, when that same nutrient is constantly out of balance for a large group of people, we deem it as a “bad” nutrient. This is possible when we isolate and concentrate a nutrient (like oil, sugar, and protein powder to name a few popular ones).
If you want a good diet that covers your ratios without having to measure or supplement, check out a whole food plant based diet. The trick to this one is eating enough calories.
The way I explain bad fats to the average person is cheap, oxidised, omega 6, heavily processed vegetable and seed oils. Get your fats from things that are actually suppose to contain fat (olives, coconut, animals foods, etc)
There are several points of discussion here.
Yes saturated fat increases LDL. Though it increases the larger LDL which isn’t bad. The VLDL and smaller LDL are the issue where they can slip between the endothelial lining cause macrophages to turn into foam cells causing plaguing. Lipoprotein a is a small form of LDL. https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2020.05.077
The issue with studies and saturated fat or meat is that they usually lump processed meat with red meat. The other thing is people who eat more satiated fat usually eat less fruits and veggies, exercise less, and consume more alcoholic beverages.
There was a coconsumption study about meat and fruits and veggies consumption. It showed that eating 4-6 a day serving decreased all incidence of cancers in the highest read meat consumption. However eating more fruits and veggies did not have an effect on incidence when 5oz of processed meat was consumed in a week. So perhaps it’s more of a fruits and veggies deficiency… https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32751091/
I remember reading a study about a decade ago which lumped red meat and processed meat together. In the study they even stated that they were not going to discuss fruits and veggies consumption because they already knew of those benefits. They did talk about those who ate less red meat also ate more fruits and veggies, drank less alcohol, and exercised more, hinting at a more health conscious mindset.
I had read overfeed studies that equated protein and kcals, but modulated a group to have high carb and low fat and another with low carb and high fat. They all gained weight and blood markers worsened. They then went on a kcal restriction intake with protein equated. Again the groups were high carb/low fat and then low carb/high fat. And they all lost weight and improved blood markers. Overall kcals seem to be a major factor.
I have seen some things on LDL being protective in older population and also dropping LDLs don’t really decrease cardiovascular infarcts. Possible fruits and veggie deficiency again?
As I was reading your study idea, I thought, “the group with the kcal equated with added poly and mono unsaturated fats will be hungry”. You mentioned that fats are the highest energy density, it doesn’t matter whether saturated or unsaturated, the kcals would still be higher. The foods are already higher kcal density at smaller portions to make the added unsaturated fat kcal equal.
This happens with people on keto. They loose weight early on because of water weight and diminished glycogen stores, but the long term all gained the weight back. This is probably from the increased kcal from all the extra fat. 15ml of olive oil had 120kcals where as 2lbs of cucumbers have under 150kcals. I would refer back to my previously discussed overfeeding studies.
My phone is being wonky, and I can’t leave the app and comeback with out it losing all that I typed, probably need to let my phone be updated. I’ll add them later